Fact-checking Kamala Harris’ CNN town hall in Pennsylvania

In a CNN town hall, Vice President Kamala Harris faced tough questions about her policy approach from voters and took the  opportunity to share several introspective moments.

Voters at the Oct. 23 event in the Philadelphia suburb of Delaware County pressed Harris on why her administration didn’t act sooner to curb illegal immigration, what she planned to do to restrain inflation and how the U.S. would prevent Palestinian civilians from suffering in a war-torn Middle East.

Harris several times warned voters of the risk of former President Donald Trump’s return to power, including her most prominent public voicing of the idea that Trump is a fascist. 

Moderator Anderson Cooper asked Harris, "Do you think Donald Trump is a fascist?"

Harris responded, "Yes, I do."

At one point, an audience member asked, "What would you do to ensure not another Palestinian dies due to bombs being funded by U.S. tax dollars?"

Harris responded that "far too many innocent Palestinian civilians have been killed. It's unconscionable." But she said she sees "an opportunity" with Israel's killing of Yahya Sinwar, the architect of Hamas' Oct. 7, 2023, terrorist attack, to "end this war, bring the hostages home, bring relief to the Palestinian people, and work toward a two-state solution where Israel and the Palestinians in equal measure have security, where the Palestinian people have dignity, self-determination, and the safety that they so rightly deserve."

Trump, who declined CNN’s invitation for a town hall, rallied supporters at an event hosted by Turning Point Action in Duluth, Georgia. 

ELECTION UPDATES: Follow along for our latest updates, fact-checks and analysis

Cooper drew Harris out on a couple of personal reflections, including the grief she felt when her mother passed away from cancer more than a decade ago and her faith.

Harris recalled that when she heard the news that President Joe Biden would give up the Democratic nomination, she "instinctively understood the gravity of the moment" and sought out spiritual guidance from her pastor, the Rev. Amos C. Brown of the Third Baptist Church of San Francisco.

"There's a part of the scripture that talks about Esther, ‘such a time as this,’ and that's what we talked about," she said. "And it was very comforting for me."

Here are fact-checks of some of what Harris said in the town hall.

Trump called Americans "the enemies within" — "he's talking about journalists, judges, nonpartisan election officials."

It’s true that Trump has used the "enemies within" language. In an Oct. 13 Fox News interview, Trump said he believes "the enemy from within" would cause Election Day chaos and suggested that, if it’s a problem, the National Guard or military might be used against them.

Pressed on whom he identifies as "the enemy," Trump has named leading Democrats and others who disagree with him. On Oct. 21 in Pennsylvania, Trump closed a rally by repeating his assessment of evilness.

"They are so bad and frankly, they’re evil," Trump said. "They’re evil. What they’ve done, they’ve weaponized, they’ve weaponized our elections."

"The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has said (Trump) is ‘a fascist to the core.’"

Harris correctly characterized comments that retired U.S. Army Gen. Mark A. Milley made to author Bob Woodward in his new book "War."

Milley, who served as Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman under Trump, told Woodward that Trump is "a fascist to the core" and "the most dangerous person to this country."

Milley’s comments echoed that of another high-ranking Trump administration official, retired U.S. Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who served as Trump’s chief of staff.

In an Oct. 22 report, The New York Times quoted Kelly saying a definition of fascism "accurately described Mr. Trump."

"Part of (Trump’s) plan is to put in place a national sales tax of at least 20% on everyday goods and necessities, and that, by economist estimates, independent economists, would cost you, as the American consumer and taxpayer, an additional $4,000 a year."

Trump has talked about raising tariffs across the board by 10% to 20%, so the 20% figure Harris cited is on the upper end of what Trump has said. Tariffs are also not technically part of the tax code, but their effect on consumers would be similar by costing them more money.

The $4,000 figure Harris cited is on the upper end of independent estimates.

Two estimates we found broadly support Harris’ $4,000 amount. Two others show a smaller — though still significant — impact, in the $1,700 to $2,600 range.

"It is the case in the United States of America that billionaires, on average, pay less taxes as a percentage than teachers and firefighters and nurses."

This talking point often repeated by Harris and other Democrats is wrong. 

Under current law, the 25 highest-earning billionaires paid a 16% tax rate on average, estimates show, while the top 1% of taxpayers paid an average rate north of 25.6%.

More than 91% of households earning from $50,000 to $100,000 a year — the category that includes most teachers, firefighters and nurses — paid effective tax rates of 15% or less, often much less.

Texas’ abortion law provides "for prison, for life for health care providers" and some state laws "make no exception, even for rape or incest." 

Harris criticized Trump over strict abortion laws that have been enacted in states across the country since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in 2022, saying laws like Texas’ threaten health care providers with "prison for life" and that some states "make no exception, even for rape or incest."

This is correct. The penalty for violating Texas’ abortion law, which is an outright ban, could include life in prison, a fine of $100,000 and loss of a medical license.

Texas’ law, which includes an exception for the life of the pregnant woman, is one of nine U.S. states that does not allow exceptions for rape or incest. The others are Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Tennessee.

"There is no question that the American people increasingly are losing confidence in the Supreme Court."

The most recent Gallup data, for September 2024, showed 44% approval of the Supreme Court, which is close to a record low since Gallup has been asking this question in 2000. Disapproval stood at 51%, which is nearly the highest during that period.

Disapproval is being driven by the views of Democrats. The court’s approval rating has nosedived among Democrats since the justices overturned Roe v. Wade in 2022, hovering around 10 points below its previous low.

Republicans currently have a 56% favorable rating for the court, which is above average for the past quarter century.

"How much of that wall did he build? I think the last number I saw is about 2%."

This is accurate for new wall construction, but does not factor in replacement. The U.S.-Mexico border is approximately 2,000 miles long. Trump’s administration built 52 miles of new primary border barriers — the first impediment people encounter if they’re trying to cross the southern border with Mexico — where there were none before. That barrier can block access for people on foot or for vehicles.

The Trump administration built 458 total miles of primary and secondary border barriers, U.S. Customs and Border Protection data shows. The majority were replacements of smaller, dilapidated barriers. 

"As of today, we have cut the flow of immigration by over half."

This is supported by fiscal year 2024 data. Border Patrol encounters with migrants at the southwest border peaked in December 2023 — at about 250,000. In September, the latest month available and the end of fiscal year 2024, there were about 54,000 encounters, a 78% drop, U.S. Customs and Border Protection data shows.

Encounters are occasions when immigration officials stop someone at the border; a single person could be stopped more than once and counted more than once, and encounters do not mean that the person is let into the U.S. ​